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So this is how my tax dollars help the poor?
By xxxxxxxxxx, Section Opinion & Editorials Posted on Tue Oct 19, 2004 at 07:12:39 PM GMT

It is so very close to the election that I had to write this, simply because I want people to know what they actually doing with their tax money and what they are getting.

I read alot about how the Welfare reform system is really working and making such big changes in the way many people live and for the better. It's PROGRESS!

I am here to tell you it all depends on what your definition of Progress is!

First off, let me tell you that most people who sign up for Assistance (Food Stamps, TANF, Medicaide, etc) are not dregs of the earth, waiting for someone else to pay their way. Generally it is someone who was working in a job that they thought was secure........and they have kids, wife, car and house payments, not to mention utilities and cost of children are immense! If you lose your job and you have no more money, what do you do?

You can apply for assistance! But hey, there is a huge catch! You have to meet what is called Low income levels. Sometimes you have made too much money that year and that means no help! Even if you are broke!! If you do get assistance, here is what you are probably going to get.......

Food Stamps..for a family of 3 is right around $350., TANF which is money to help pay your expenses is about $300. This is a month you guys, not a week, or bi-weekly, but monthly! You are supposed to be able to live on this and also fulfill your TANF obligations with it which is do a job search and apply for at least 12 a week. Now for all you online afficianados, you would not be allowed to apply online nor fax your resume, it has to be given physically to a person, you have to document that persons name and get a phone number so that it can be verified!! You are supposed to do 48 the first month you recieve benefits. That in plain english is you apply, physically, for 48 jobs, of anykind that you are physically able to do and make sure you document it fully!! They do check up on you, very closely.

If you do not fulfill this, you are sanctioned, this means you could lose all your TANF and maybe even the food stamps and medicaide. If at the end of this first month you have not gone completely nuts applying for every job under the sun, and you still haven't gotten one, well, they start finding you things to do to 'earn' your TANF. This could be most anything they feel you can do and you have to put in at least 35 hours a week, which is what is required for you to add up the the TANF...that is 35 hours a week of minimum wage...until you have earned the TANF.

Not only that, but you are told to take the first job offered you and it doesn't have to be something you like or even want, just take a job, minimum wage is fine.......MacDonald is fine, just as long as you are working and then you can draw the TANF as a supplemental income......and still be tied to the system. This is not reform, this is not getting people out there and getting them employed to make a living and be able to support themselves and their families. This is get a job so the numbers look good for the person and the party that happens to be in Government at that time. It sucks and it doesn't work!

If you are going to tell people, take any job, it doesn't have to be permanent, you can always change jobs and do something else later. Yeah, right, how many jobs do you know want someone missing time from work to go to interviews and fill out applications??? Most minimum wage jobs work odd hours too and so you are strapped to make a day to do anything different. And what does this tell people about job respect.....you can always change jobs, its done all the time.....yes it is, but job hopping is frowned on and so is missing time from work to look for other jobs. What kind of message is this to people?

In my opinion, it keeps people on the Assistance roster while showing they are employed and so it looks like the program works. Only most of the people on the program are not really happy and are having a hard time making ends meet, even with the assistance. Try feeding kis on a $300 a month and see how far you get!

I am sick to death of the idiots who say that Bush has done so much for country and for our economic situation. This is a man who could care less about the common man and his problems and doesn't give a rats ass about who he hurts as long as he stays in office and does his thing......the 'End to Terrorism Campaign!' He is not rational in thinking that he can destroy Terrorism nor is he helping our eonomy any with his ideas of privatizing Social Security and doing cuts to the Elderly who already have a hard enough time as it is. If you dont' see it firsthand and work with it, you have no idea what really goes on.

May I suggest some community service to those of you who believe Bush is the Number 1 Candidate. You might be surprised how quickly you change your mind when you see the truth. His arrogance and ignorance is costing us greatly and we are not that damn secure from any terrorism if truth be known.......you cannot hide from it and you cannot destroy it, it is here to stay and we need to learn to find ways to deal with it on a rational, secure and honest level. The bullshit we get fed by this man is outrageous! Dont' buy into it, its not always what he presents it to be.

Its out there and it doesn't take Mulder or Scully to find it for you, you can see it plainly if you just open your eyes.

< Simon Sez ' What the F&*#k!' | Thuhuhuhuhuhuh Yankees Lose! >

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So this is how my tax dollars help the poor? | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 hidden)

Ok (none / 0) (#6)
by l33t j03 on Wed Oct 20, 2004 at 07:59:38 PM GMT

This is a man who could care less about the common man

Can you point out a President, or any serious candidate in any Presidential election ever, to whom this could not be applied?

Kerry? He probably spends more money on facial elongation surgery than the combined salaries of evryone who visits this site. Do you think the he could tell you, unprompted, what a loaf of bread costs? Think he could get within $100 of the monthly payment on a blue Honda Civic with AC and electric start? I'd ask him, but I'd have to figure out which million dollar home he was staying in that day, scale the electrified fence and swim the moat and outwit the poor person seeking missiles to get to him. He does not feel your pain or understand your situation any more than Bush does, he is just better at convincing you he does.

The is a man who, in a debate, said:

"And looking around here, at this group here, I suspect there are only three people here who are going to be affected"

This was in reference to raising taxes on people making more than $200Gs a year. He looked around the room, didn't see anyone dressed well enough to invite to a dinner party at one of his houses, and assumed they were all poor people and set out to pander to them. These were people he wouldn't even want to be in the same room with were he not running for President. If I'd been in the audience and had an orange on my pocket, as I often do at social events, I would have thrown it at him. Condescending fuck.

Anway, pardon the rant. All the replies thus far have been long, so I needed some padding.

May I suggest some community service

You are the second person to suggest this to me, the other was more of an 'order' than a suggestion.

Most of the problems you listed, having to apply for a shitload of jobs, having to take anything you are offered, etc, seem like good things to me. I don't see a problem with giving people a little more to get by on particularly if they have children, but I'd rather see 'in kind' tranfers rather than 'in cash' in those cases. Regardless, people on the public dole shouldn't be happy and shouldn't find the process easy. If the financial motivation to work is reduced it has to be replaced with a social motivation.

Reagan thought it all up one night while drinking Bourbon with Satan.

So Linda, (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by Adam on Wed Oct 20, 2004 at 04:12:08 PM GMT

How much money do you think the government should give a person for not working? The $300/month you quote isn't intended to provide a person with enough to life off of, it is intended to help a person get by until he or she can find work.

Ok, this is the tricky part......... (none / 0) (#5)
by xxxxxxxxxx on Wed Oct 20, 2004 at 06:12:17 PM GMT

I don't necessarily say that any huge amount of money should be given.....but I do think that they should give enough for someone to be able to make it on until they find a job. $300 a month will not pay rent, utilities, car insurance, gas to run said car (especially if you are out actively looking for work and applying for jobs as they want and demand you do to be able to get the assistance).

$300 just does not cover all that, and take care of your children...I know you know that, you are a parent, you can understand how much the cost to rear children is....and that is if you only do the modest necessities.....we are not talking grand things like CD's and Gameboys etc, I am talking deodorant, toilet paper, shoes, etc. You dont' get money to buy those unless you decide not to pay utilities or some other bill. Food stamps only cover food.....nothing else!

Can you live without toilet paper, well, yeah, you could, but I wouldn't want to sit next to you on the bus. :-) The other thing is, they want to continue paying you this amount for 2 years while you work.........does that make sense to you?? I mean, if you have a good job that has benefits and at least keeps food on your table, doesn't it make more sense to make those people totally independent rather than let them continue drawing the TANF and work? It is a double edged sword here.

Look, I grew up in a poor household. I worked from the time I was 15 and am still doing it. My father never bought me a car, never put me through school, but he worked like a dog and died at age 66 (a Veteran of WW2) and never took a dime from Assistance or anyone else that he didn't go out work a day for. So my work ethic is probably much like most here, you earn what you have. However, there are times when you can't provide for you child, and that is where I am concerned most.

I think that it should be $450 a month for TANF and around $400 for food stamps.....and that also depends on the size of the family.

Like many people, I could cut the hot water off and use cold, I could live without tv and telephone if I had to, but I have a child and I know how important that is to have those things....especially warm water, electricity, phone (in case of any emergency!) and just plain things we take for granted in life. If it were legal, and it were just me, I could stand to use a 'outhouse' again in my life if I had to, but I dont' want my pre-teen daughter going outside at night in the dark to use the bathroom because today people are capable of anything, and she could be raped, murdered, right in her own yard! So its not so simple anymore to be tough and make do, our society is not built that way anymore.

Yeah, I know, I am a real idiot about kids and the welfare of them, but I do think we as a society owe them something.........they cannot support themselves.

The other thing is, the damn Senators and Congressman got their flu shots, and you know why..........because they shake a lot of hands and could get the flu. Gee, my heart breaks for those guys because they shake a lot of hands. Good reason to get a flu shot. The rest of the people, old, children, ill health will have to wait until there is more available, maybe in January or travel to Canada to get theirs.

Does this not seem sort of unreasonable to you that a person who makes over 200k a year in Govt. should get his flu shots first???? So the people who vote you into office are not as important as you because they don't shake as many hands?

My thought on that........Prostitutes should be vaccinated first, after all, it aint just hands they are shaking.

;-)

[ Parent ]

So what you're saying is... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by Beef on Tue Oct 19, 2004 at 07:54:01 PM GMT

In order to get free handouts from the government, you have to:

1. Try to get a job.
2. And if you can't get a job, do SOMETHING?

Do you have any idea how lucky you are to live in a country where we can afford guarantee people food, clothes, and shelter? I have no problem paying for this sort of security, but if I'm going to participate in forced charity, I want to be damned sure that the people benefitting from my hard-earned money are people who are doing everything they can to get work, and not refusing what work they can get. Why should society provide for people who refuse to put any work back into the system, or refuse any work that's "inconvenient" for them?

It used to be that we had CHURCHES that took care of this sort of thing. If people actually attended church and gave their 10%, maybe they'd actually be a source of relief, instead of us needing compulsory charity through the state.

And maybe if people actually learned to live within their means, they wouldn't be hurting so much for money when rough times come. People today think they are entitled to cable tv, cell phones, nice cars, and spacious homes. If I were in a position where I was dealing with very little income, I'd draw up a budget and do what I needed to get by. If that means moving me and the wife and kids into a $50,000 home, eating oatmeal for breakfast and beans and rice for dinner, then so be it. But then, I would pride myself on being able to get by with little, rather than bemoaning that I don't live the Suburban Dream.

Actually, that doesn't just go for people of low income. That goes for people of any income. Why is the average consumer debt something like $6000 per household? Do you need things THAT badly that you can't wait until you can afford them? Do you think that if you take home $3000/mo, you can spend $3500 month after month, and somehow magically it will all work itself out? If we weren't paying billions of dollars a year servicing debt, maybe we'd have more money in the economy doing useful things.

Yes, the cure for our economic ills clearly is to further burden the working to pay for the lifestyles of the unworking. That will make our economy SO much stronger. I'm sorry if I sound insensitive to people who are down on their luck. I know there are a lot of good people on welfare. But it's gotten out of hand with the people who think that the world owes them a comfortable living. Life has been hard for millennia, and an easy life is not anyone's birthright.

Finally, how many terror attacks have there been on our soil since 9/11/01? Just something to think about.

--
Be conservative in what you do. Be liberal in what you accept from others.

And yes, (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by Beef on Tue Oct 19, 2004 at 08:05:30 PM GMT

I do know what you do for a living. And I think it is wonderful, what you do. I have no problem with there being a social safety net, and I have the utmost respect for those people who do the thankless job making it work.

BUT, some things have just gotten out of hand.

--
Be conservative in what you do. Be liberal in what you accept from others.
[ Parent ]

don't get me wrong...... (none / 0) (#3)
by xxxxxxxxxx on Wed Oct 20, 2004 at 12:36:56 PM GMT

I agree with a lot you have said and I also appreciate your respect for my work. :-)

However, and I mean this with good intent, not always do the people who apply for assistance have huge homes and big bills, they just have ordinary living expenses and try very hard to meet them. Most people here do not live in even 50k houses, they live in trailers and smaller homes that cost much less. They work, sometimes 2 jobs to earn a meager living. The world is not all larger cities and metro areas, there is such a thing as rural living and some of those people are born into, they do not choose it.

What I see, on most days, is people who have tried to keep jobs to make ends meet. They don't have cable, they don't have cell phones, some don't even have regular phones!! This is just how some people have had to live, not because they have a choice but because they had to make do with what and where they are geographically.

As far as the 'inconvenient' jobs go, there is a line. I don't think any job is beneath anyone, or that anyone should turn down a job if it is offered them if they are in desperate straights. I have done it, so I don't expect anymore of anyone else than what I would do, but.....I don't think a mother with 3 kids and a absentee husband should have to work at Hardees or McDonalds, never be at home with her kids, pay out child care and barely make ends meet, even with TANF. They need to be educated and helped to find better employment with benefits so that they can provide better and cost tax payers less.

I just want real working changes, not lets do this as a quick fix. You know quick fixes always break again eventually, its better to do it right the first time and save yourself money and time. :-)

Truth is, I love people and I have a great deal of empathy for the poor who really do try and are not expecting a handout, but have no choice in the matter. A lot of them are practically in the hole because they are intimidated, embarrassed, afraid to ask for help from the Government. Some of these people fought in foreign wars and have health problems, etc. Do you understand now why I mean that about the 9/11 thing and respect for our people who do put their lives on the line? They don't get what they deserve and a whole lot of them are having to apply for assistance!! So how is that respect and support for our troups????

I respect your opinion and understand how you feel, I often feel the same way when I do see the ones who expect help and think they are owed something. But in the long run, what I see the most of is poor, truly in a bad way, good people.

As a added note....my husband, is a VietNam veteran. He has had to be disabled because his health has declined greatly in the past few years. He had to have an aneurism repair and that was caused by his service for his country...he jumped out of planes, retrieving parachutes and helping to carry the wounded back to the planes. He has been out of work now for about 2 years and is waiting patiently for the Govt. to decide if he can get his VA disability or not. In the meantime I am supporting our family and working fulltime at home too, so I am one of the ones who knows firsthand what its like to have to juggle everything. I do it because I have to, I do it because it is life, reality and I am glad I am able to do it.

But I would dearly love to see respect and care taken of those who do the putting the life on the line and have seen very little of it in my time. Bush talks a good game, but can he back it up?
His father did much the same in Desert Storm and look at the problems that arose from that healthwise for the service men, and what is being done about it? Not a whole lot. So you see, I have very little faith in our so called leaders to do the right thing when it comes to support of our troups. Maybe they do a half assed job while they are out there fighting, but when they come home, well, they are left to their own devices and most don't cope real well.

Sorry for the rant, I am just tired and wonder if things will ever change and become somewhat fair for all of us, or will it always be in the hands of the ones who have......and to hell with the ones who don't.

[ Parent ]

Actually... (none / 0) (#7)
by Beef on Wed Oct 20, 2004 at 08:35:03 PM GMT

...I was seriously worried you would rip me a new one. :-)

I think something was touched off in me that has nothing whatsoever to do with you. But I get very aggrevated at the fact that the following virtues:

1. Thrift
2. Community
3. Charity

Are being replaced with:

1. Debt
2. Entitlement
3. Avarice

It's not just the fact that there are people out there who think that a nice, middle-class life is their birthright. It's that the people who do have, just don't care. In generations previous, people stuck together and looked out for one another, so if one family was in trouble, they would help them out. Do we have this today?

I also think about the pioneers and settlers in the 19th century, who would travel out to the middle of Nebraska with two cows and a couple of tools, and build a life for themselves out of 40 acres. Could we as a nation accomplish this today? If the American people today were tasked with taming the Wild West, and building a nation from sea to sea, would we have the determination and the cajones to make it happen? Or would we fail miserably?

And then there are people who think that life is oh-so-unfair because some people have more than they do. I wish people would worry about their own affairs, and not about how much other people make. I personally don't care if everyone on my block makes $30,000 more than I do. I care that I have enough to take care of my family. Of course I want more - who doesn't? - but I don't think there is some grave injustice that there are people who have more than I do.

Finally, getting back to politics, George Bush is not going to dismantle the welfare system. One of the things I really despise about the Democrats is their tactic of scaring people with the threat that if Republicans are elected, all your Shiny Things will be taken away. (Not that the "expect more terror attacks if Kerry is elected" Republicans are any better in this regard.)

--
Be conservative in what you do. Be liberal in what you accept from others.
[ Parent ]

So this is how my tax dollars help the poor? | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 hidden)

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